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@TheEricAnderson @dohertyjf @ramit One example of a product that tried to swim upstream is Dating Ring:

https://justinjackson.ca/need-want

Almost every entrepreneur I know (including me) has gone through a stage where they felt they could "change the culture" or "swim against the current" and win.

But eventually, we all learn the same lesson.

🎯

https://twitter.com/dohertyjf/status/1302012238778171392

@jesseleite85 hahahaha. I mean, that's the other general rule: anything you start, I'll invest in.

@jesseleite85 As a general rule, none of my advice applies to you. 😉

I just don't believe this narrative that indie entrepreneurs can magically:

- build-up momentum in a market that has none
- create a new category that didn't exist before

Mostly because it's (almost) impossible to change the behavior of a mass of people, all at once.

RT @randfish: Friends,

The amazing @VeniKunche built a resource to help underrepresented folks in tech (women, Black/Brown folks, LGBTQ+,…

@erikbison @lemonpie_fm 🙌 nice work!

@Wickerpedia That’s what I’m saying: demand (generally) can’t be created or influenced (especially by independent entrepreneurs).

@Wickerpedia Philips launched a new product (Phillips head) into an existing market category (screw drivers).

@conarro Some markets are just too small to support a business (this is the case for bubble tea in my town).

@Wickerpedia Demand can be quantified by “how much customers bought (or are buying at the current moment).”

Ie. “The demand for Tesla stock right now is skyrocketing.”

@isterin @adii Many of these have existed for decades:
https://justinjackson.ca/nobooze

@_JessicaSachs This all depends on the size of the total market, or the specific niche, you’re targeting.

In my small town, I’ve seen bubble tea struggle (repeated attempts), but multiple coffee shops have opened (all doing reasonably well).

@AWaselnuk It’s true.

But even the boundless potential of the internet has limits:
https://justinjackson.ca/niche

RT @HamillHimself: Further proof that not only is he a profoundly unworthy "president", he's also a truly loathsome human being in his own…

@nbashaw Transistor dot fm

@conarro Well, I personally prefer pie. 😉

It all depends how big the pie market is.

In my town, if I had the choice between starting a bubble tea shop or a hipster coffee shop, I’d start the latter.

@mattwensing @adii Hurray! 🎉

Hahaha. Glad to have folks pushback though. 😉

I'm just a jackass trying to explore ideas.

@chadhflinn @TransistorFM Yup! I've done a few (using private podcasts).

And @saronyitbarek is building a platform specifically for this. 👍

@mattwensing @adii Again, market demand gets shaped over time and is influenced by innovation, government policy, investment, R&D, the ubiquity of related technologies (VOD, cable), evolution in the category...

Demand grows "gradually and then suddenly."

@tylertringas @adii Ack. I hate to name real names. There are a few bootstrapped businesses that I can think of.

On the VC-funded side, there are tons of examples in this talk: http://Z.com, Insider Pages, MyLife, Desktop Factory, Peoplelink.

#t-403426" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gross_the_single_biggest_reason_why_startups_succeed/transcript?language=en#t-403426

@mattwensing @adii My thread with Adii was specifically about generating demand.

If by "market" you mean "market (product) category," I think those are very difficult to create from scratch.

Generating demand for a specific category (on your own) is also incredibly difficult (impossible?).

@mattwensing @adii This whole discussion thread has been about demand. 😜

Customer demand is shaped by these factors:

- Changes in price or supply of related goods
- Government policy, investment, R&D
- The ubiquity of related technologies
- Evolving societal trends and tastes
- Rising (or falling) incomes
- Evolution in a category
- Economic cycles

@mattwensing @adii Netflix rode a wave that had been building for years: video on demand, HBO, YouTube. There's been a demand for streaming video since the advent of the internet.

The same is true for Jobs (smartphone, portable audio). He didn't even create the categories!

@adii @tylertringas The nice thing about sitting the ocean (and business) is if you're attentive, and you learn to recognize the shape of good waves, there will be multiple opportunities for you to catch a good one. 👍

@adii @tylertringas Again, generally outside of the surfer's control. 😉

@adii Again, I'd argue we *respond to demand that exists*.

We rarely create it (mostly because it's too damn expensive and takes way too long).

(*exceptions might be: huge industry lobbies that can influence government policy, and industries who take massive government subsidies)

@adii @tylertringas Yes, but isn't that the point?

A wave is formed by a variety of forces of nature (water’s motion, gravitational forces, and winds).

A wave of demand is formed by a variety of market forces (most of which are outside our control – especially as indies).

@drewdil 💯

@adii Factors that influence demand:

- Changes in price or supply for related goods
- Government policy, investment, R&D
- The ubiquity of related technologies
- Evolving societal trends and tastes
- Rising (or falling) incomes
- Evolution in a category
- Economic cycles

@adii The internet was not a business! 😜

The internet was a government-funded research project for the military (and then later, an academic research project).

A lot of innovation gets created by governments + academia, which later creates market-effects.

@adii But who *created* that demand? Was it a single company?

Or... was it a variety of societal factors (demographics, culture, etc) coming together to form the wave of demand?

@adii "Inbound marketing" is a new term for an old idea. 😉 There's been a market for that type of marketing for a long time.

Slack rode an existing wave. They weren't even close to the first company in the category. Campfire pioneered the B2B market (and before them, ICQ and AOL).

@manuel_frigerio "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing."

They don't call it "market economics" for nothing. 😉

Our entire capitalist system is based on the principle of supply + demand in a market.

Most of us will have very little influence over what masses of people want.

(Maybe the best hucksters can fool people once, but it's not repeatable)

There many factors that influence demand (and most are out of our control): government policy, culture, economy, pandemics, etc.

@jesseleite85 That was a good decision. 👍

@adii Can you think of examples where demand was created from scratch?

https://twitter.com/mijustin/status/1301635681572196352

Independent businesses rarely create demand on their own.

We're almost always tapping into existing demand that's already been building.

@Swizec Hahaha. Exactly.

At some point (once you're 2-3 years in?) indie makers need to ask themselves: "Is this a hobby, or a business?"

The market is unsympathetic to your passion.

You can build whatever you want, but ultimately you're beholden to the market and what it wants.

Without customer demand, you don't have a business.

@dchymko 🤣

@shamwela_ @youyuxi https://twitter.com/mijustin/status/1301592210811412480

@metzgereduard Yup. But that only works if you're already a member of a decent market. 😉

@Charlesvinette Passion is fine for artists, but a customer generally doesn't care if the maker is "passionate" (unless that passion generates something they want).

There has to be some level of desire from customers to make business work.

@AlexMartinFR @JeremyCee I wrote a bit about this here:
https://justinjackson.ca/want

@dchymko Very risky, and almost never something "entirely new."

(Most things evolve out of something else)

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-history-of-the-doughnut-150405177/

RT @mijustin: If you're good at making 🍰 and 🥧, but there's 10x more demand for 🍰, why would you make 🥧?

@metzgereduard Some good examples here:
https://justinjackson.ca/build

@m1guelpf THIS!!! 💯

There's nothing wrong with being an artist! The world needs more art. 👍

If you're good at making 🍰 and 🥧, but there's 10x more demand for 🍰, why would you make 🥧?

@arvidkahl You get it. 🎯

https://twitter.com/mijustin/status/1298340074375929859

"I got into business to make what I want to make."

You can do that, but you'll need to do it within the context of a market.

(In the same way that we're beholden to the law of gravity)

@metzgereduard I'm talking about markets, and categories, that have demonstrated demand.

When you're thinking about launching a business, this is the primary thing that matters.

"I only want to bake pies."

That's fine, but that makes you an artist, not a business.

A business person, who discovers that 9 times out of 10 people prefer cake over pie, will switch to selling cake.

@metzgereduard Likewise, chat apps for teams had tons of demonstrated demand: Campfire, Hipchat, etc.

The category already existed and had traction.

@meoyawn @metzgereduard Yup. Not really a business.

The market is brutal. You can supply goods that are high quality, but if nobody wants them you’ll faily.

Without demand, there is no business.

@metzgereduard AirBnB is in the accomodation market, which had tons of demonstrated demand (hostels, hotels, motels, B&B).

@metzgereduard I don't like that approach, because 1 person isn't a good indicator of market momentum.

@podcastharry @manuel_frigerio Thanks. 😊

That's @jackmcdade's handiwork!

@JosiahRendon @TransistorFM Thanks so much for choosing Transistor! 🙌

We're a small business, so your support means a lot to us. 🥰

I also don't think it's necessary to build an audience before you bake your cake.

It's more important to observe *what types of cake are in high demand*.

Meaning: which types of cake do you see people buying and eating every day?

(This is a business metaphor)

There's a big difference between baking a cake you think people might want, and baking a cake you see people buying and eating every day. 🍰

@chowdhuryrahul @frankdilo @usefathom @TransistorFM We were originally inspired by Nathan and ConvertKit.

@calebporzio Compaq 486DX Turbo

@manuel_frigerio @TransistorFM Not new! We’ve had that feature from day 1. 🙌

Had a great conversation with @justinvincent.

We hash out whether building an audience before you build your product is *really* a good idea. 🤔

https://overcast.fm/+OJ6u84Ko

@logicmason @justinvincent @ReactorPod 🙌 nice!

oh god oh god oh god oh god

@TheEricAnderson Mind blowing!

Got ahold of someone, thanks @JamesCridland and @blirwin! 👍

@iChris Anyone at @googledevs able to help?

"This little girl in my neighborhood reminded me that I'm a f*cking human being."

Watch @baratunde's video.

"This is not a game. [He] is a tax dodging, philandering, cheat. [His] charities are cheats. [His] businesses are cheats. [His] existence is chaos. This is not normal." https://twitter.com/baratunde/status/1300909688574230529

Does anyone here work at Google Podcasts?

(Google isn't indexing new podcast feeds for some reason. Trying to figure out why)

@YWTDW @TransistorFM Thank you! 🙌

@justinvincent I still think building an audience is still a good idea. 👍

But I think the direct link between "build your audience so you can launch/market your product" is more tenuous.

(Especially for SaaS)

Info products, paid communities, and paid newsletters definitely benefit.

@philhawksworth @Netlify @Tzmanics @sarah_edo @cassidoo @shortdiv @jlengstorf WOW! So awesome to see this podcast hosted on @TransistorFM.

We use @statamic + Netlify to host our website (http://transistor.fm), and we LOVE YOU! ❤️❤️❤️

@OrionSeven Yup. We’re on the north side of that lake (which is massive).

@OrionSeven Okanagan Lake 👍

Holding on to summer as long as I can.

@thejonotron Whoa cool!

💯 https://twitter.com/HandsomeAnHeavy/status/1120008580214738944

RT @yongfook: Now supports the "blue check" for tweets by verified accounts :)

(tweet via @mijustin)

“And, like a devil on our shoulder, our technology is telling us to go it alone. After all, it’s an iPad, not an usPad.”

Great piece by @rushkoff:

https://onezero.medium.com/the-privileged-have-entered-their-escape-pods-4706b4893af7

@kjaymiller @TransistorFM Sweet! 🙌

@chasewreeves Canada. 🇨🇦

RT @DustinLeblanc: Listening to this old gem of an episode from @adamwathan and @mijustin https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9HZDM3VmNEdw/episode/MWQ4OGQ4NjgtYTFkZi00ZDcyLWFiN2UtMzJkNzhkNTY5NmYz

Okay FINNEE so maybe it…

@adamwathan Can we call this “Slayer mode?”

Love it. https://t.co/j68QYa3ZBq

@itsjustamar Your idea (the market you choose + the concept behind your solution) matters more than how you execute it.

Do you relish the “grey skies” feeling?

Or, do you try to escape from it?

@WiseArts I know! 😫

One of my all-time faves.

Incredible songwriter.

Awe-inspiring performer.

For me it’s Tom Petty.

https://youtu.be/s5BJXwNeKsQ

What do you listen to when it’s overcast and grey outside?

@cgimmer @itsjustamar Congrats! 🎉

@coreyhainesco @DavidSpinks @rosiesherry 👋 http://MegaMaker.co

@glenmccallumcan This is interesting. Can you explain more?

@themsaid Congrats on four years! 🙌

You’ve done well. 👍